Random Writer Discussion


I admit, I was a bit bored today at work, so I instigated a discussion on Twitter.  It lasted 3 hours.  No agenda, no real topics, just discussion.

thanks to Nate Crowder, KnightChills, InkGorilla, Jeff Pfaller, Cryssfox, Sheik Yurbouti, Sandra Wickham, BryanThomasSTheTillMonke, GeneDoucette and everyone who dropped by.

I will be doing this again… sometime 😉

December 23, 2010
5:36 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder @KnightChills use #rdmwrtdisc
5:37 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc So, yeah. First draft, usually pretty close. It’s rare for me to go back in and make major changes.
5:39 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder #rdmwrtdisc do you outline or just sketch out some ideas?
5:40 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc for short fiction, I just have a very clear picture of the end before I start. For longer, I outline heavily.
5:41 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc the novel I finished last month had a 19 page, 5,000 word outline for it.
5:42 pm KnightChills: #rdmwrtdisc I usually plot things in my mind over coffee. Once it’s written, minor changes occur.
5:42 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder #rdmwrtdisc Interesting that you have the ending first. So you kind of work backwards?
5:43 pm shadowflame1974: @KnightChills #rdmwrtdisc so you do some plotting first with changes in the outline?
5:45 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc I blame my Taurus nature. I just REALLY like to know where I’m going before I start out, otherwise I get lost.
5:45 pm shadowflame1974: Random Writing Discussion– first drafts and how each writer approaches them. #rdmwrtdisc
5:46 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder I’m kind of opposite. I start somewhere at the beginning and see what is next. #rdmwrtdisc
5:46 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc plus, I’ve always found a strong ending can inspire a whole story pretty easily.
5:46 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder @KnightChills how long have you been writing? #rdmwrtdisc
5:47 pm inkgorilla: Good discussion… (lurking & working) @NateCrowder @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc
5:48 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 @KnightChills #rdmwrtdisc I’ve been for 30 years, but not seriously until the last 10 or so.
5:48 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder endings are what is failing me right now. Need to work on stronger ones. So what makes a strong ending? #rdmwrtdisc
5:50 pm pfallerj: Outlining is a must for me, or I meander 2 boring areas. Makes it easier 4 scenes to have clarity on where characters need 2 go. #rdmwrtdisc
5:50 pm cryssfox: I have a terrible time with endings as well. #rdmwrtdisc
5:50 pm shadowflame1974: @SheikYurbouti nope #rdmwrtdisc
5:51 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc For me, it’s has to involve a big change for the main character – transformation or existential insight, maybe.
5:52 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 usually start with a strong scene that is clear in my head and the rest of the story appears around it… #rdmwrtdisc
5:52 pm shadowflame1974: @pfallerj how do your outlines go? list wise or is it like paragraphs? #rdmwrtdisc
5:53 pm NateCrowder: @cryssfox #rdmwrtdisc I’ve had terrible endings as well, usually when I’m more interested in the character than their journey/destination.
5:53 pm cryssfox: @TheTillMonkey That’s how I write as well. #rdmwrtdisc
5:53 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder I always admire those stories with that big transformation. Gives me chills sometimes #rdmwrtdisc
5:53 pm shadowflame1974: @TheTillMonkey that is usually how I start, but endings are failing me at times. #rdmwrtdisc
5:53 pm cryssfox: @NateCrowder I look at the end and look at it and then decide the story must have ended ten pages back. #rdmwrtdisc
5:54 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder so do you think that a character driven story has more of a chance of a weaker ending than a plot driven story? #rdmwrtdisc
5:54 pm SheikYurbouti: @shadowflame1974 You read any Kelly Link? She does fairly unconventional endings that work quite well. #rdmwrtdisc
5:55 pm NateCrowder: @TheTillMonkey @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc is your strong inspiration scene generally at the beginning or end of your story?
5:56 pm shadowflame1974: @SheikYurbouti not yet, but looks like I am going to. #rdmwrtdisc
5:56 pm cryssfox: @NateCrowder For me the inspiration scene is usually one of the first scenes if not the first one. #rdmwrtdisc
5:56 pm cryssfox: @NateCrowder For my second novel it was the third chapter. #rdmwrtdisc
5:56 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder depends, most of the time at the end, but I have to go back and add more to make more impact. #rdmwrtdisc
5:58 pm shadowflame1974: we have a random discussion on drafts and endings over at #rdmwrtdisc want to join?
5:59 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc When I do go backwards, it tends to be to plant something that foreshadows the ending, or add ironic repetition
6:00 pm shadowflame1974: @cryssfox how many chapters total was it? #rdmwrtdisc
6:00 pm cryssfox: 100 #rdmwrtdisc
6:01 pm NateCrowder: @cryssfox #rdmwrtdisc for some reason, I find the fact that it was the third chapter fascinating.
6:01 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 most of them were quite short and it was each day and night of a 14 year old’s spring #rdmwrtdisc
6:01 pm shadowflame1974: @cryssfox looking back on it, do you that that inspiration scene looses focus by the ending or is it still strong? #rdmwrtdisc
6:02 pm inkgorilla: used to start out with concept (plot, character, setting) then work my way into a story. more & more am starting w/ ending #rdmwrtdisc
6:02 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 In this case it was still very strong. It’s one of the only times you see her cry. #rdmwrtdisc
6:02 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 But that story was written as vignettes so its a little different. #rdmwrtdisc
6:03 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974 Am going to join in, just switching to Ipod Touch while I do cardio. What?! And what is with this #rdmwrtdisc hashtag?! LOL
6:03 pm cryssfox: @cryssfox It’s almost like I was introduced to her in the pouring rain while she threw rocks at her father’s car. #rdmwrtdisc
6:03 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham you know me and my hashtags. just a random discussion on writing 😀 #rdmwrtdisc
6:04 pm NateCrowder: @inkgorilla I do that as well. But I’ve had many starts where I have a char. and setting I love, but can’t find the story. #rdmwrtdisc
6:05 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 ah see I tend to find an ending before I find the middle.. #rdmwrtdisc
6:06 pm NateCrowder: @inkgorilla #rdmwrtdisc …and I end up wandering around for several pages before I realize it’s just a character study for a future story.
6:07 pm inkgorilla: @NateCrowder yeah, character study. don’t know where i want them to end up until i sketch it out a little #rdmwrtdisc
6:08 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974: I know I’m going to mess up the hashtag at some point. Are we talking 1st drafts short stories or novels-both? #rdmwrtdisc
6:09 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham both hon and you can go here http://tweetchat.com/room/rdmwrtdisc makes it easier #rdmwrtdisc
6:10 pm shadowflame1974: So what is the difference between a character study and a short story? Lacks plot and devolopment? #rdmwrtdisc
6:11 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 one you’d like to publish and one you’d cringe if someone actually read it. #rdmwrtdisc
6:12 pm shadowflame1974: @cryssfox lol (I tend to do a lot of character studies I guess 😉 ) #rdmwrtdisc
6:12 pm inkgorilla: i find a character study ends up being exploration of motives, setting, personality w/ just a veneer of plot… #rdmwrtdisc
6:13 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 Pretty much. Unless the char. or setting is exciting enough to BE the story, it needs a plot. At least for me. #rdmwrtdisc
6:13 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I do some character studies that are almost fan fictiony-I put my characters in known settings. #rdmwrtdisc
6:13 pm inkgorilla: …it’s true that if it’s good enough, that may be enough for a short story. but sometimes it’s just enough to get ideas #rdmwrtdisc
6:13 pm shadowflame1974: But character studies are useful. gives you a glimpse of who and what the MC is #rdmwrtdisc
6:14 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 Absolutely. #rdmwrtdisc
6:14 pm inkgorilla: @shadowflame1974 exactly. #rdmwrtdisc
6:15 pm NateCrowder: I don’t want to dismiss character studies. If nothing else, it’s good development work for a later story. Like practicing scales #rdmwrtdisc
6:16 pm inkgorilla: @NateCrowder i like that.. scales. #rdmwrtdisc
6:16 pm shadowflame1974: do you think that writers should practice character studies? Like for each MC do one or should it just happen? #rdmwrtdisc
6:17 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 I rarely do a separate character study. Because I write by letting my story unfold, it doesn’t work well. #rdmwrtdisc
6:17 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 It really helps if you feel you don’t know your characters well enough. #rdmwrtdisc
6:17 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 Ive done plenty of prewriting on characters as well. Either can work. It’s all about what you need as an author #rdmwrtdisc
6:18 pm shadowflame1974: @David_JWest no not talking about slush just a random discussion if you’d like to join in #rdmwrtdisc
6:18 pm inkgorilla: i don’t set out necessarily to do a study. sometimes just happens that way #rdmwrtdisc
6:19 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974 On my iPod touch so gonna be behind a lot methinks. I might just have to lurk. :p #rdmwrtdisc
6:19 pm NateCrowder: @inkgorilla same here. And practice showing motivation and description is good practice, even if you never use that character. #rdmwrtdisc
6:19 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham no worries I’ll save the discussion and put it on my blog for later 😀 #rdmwrtdisc
6:20 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder @inkgorilla but if you do one, do you feel more confidant of the characters? #rdmwrtdisc
6:21 pm sandrawickham: @inkgorilla: Short stories I don’t do official character studies, for novels I do. Probably not enough so I do more with drafts #rdmwrtdisc
6:22 pm BryanThomasS: @sandrawickham Like me. I go back before a 2nd draft and compile character studies then flesh them out so I can deepen the arcs #rdmwrtdisc
6:22 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 @inkgorilla #rdmwrtdisc sometimes yes. And sometimes I realize that character doesn’t fit in what I was planning to write.
6:23 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS @sandrawickham Interesting that you go back and fill in the gaps so to speak with the chars. #rdmwrtdisc
6:23 pm BryanThomasS: Do you guys have a specific set of data or questions you ask yourselves about characters or does it vary? #rdmwrtdisc
6:23 pm SheikYurbouti: Can i get a definition of character study? #rdmwrtdisc
6:23 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder if he doesn’t fit,do you save it for later or adjust the character? #rdmwrtdisc
6:23 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 A lot of that is because, like the story, the characters kind of come alive in context and I need the story #rdmwrtdisc
6:23 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 to unfold first. #rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm SheikYurbouti: I’m picturing reams of prose on physical attributes, motives, history, etc. #rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 But I do the same thing with motifs and theme as well as filling out the plot, closing holes, etc. #rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm cryssfox: @SheikYurbouti For me I put a character in a known fictional realm and see what happens to them. #rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm shadowflame1974: @SheikYurbouti I think a character study is more of an essay of the character, background, emotions, actions. not always a story #rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm KnightChills: @shadowflame1974 I’ve been writing 10 years but more into it the last 3 years. I only outline for longer works.#rdmwrtdisc
6:24 pm inkgorilla: well, yeah, when you do a study you get a rough highlight of the attributes of the char, which can make it easier.. #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 if I can’t use them in that piece, they get added to a file of characters waiting for the right story. #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm inkgorilla: though sometimes I just play “20 Questions” with the char (i have a list) and go from there. #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS By the second draft I know better who they are and/or who I need them to be. #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm Rshunter88: @shadowflame1974 I make lists and charts about the characters, but don’t write out scenes that aren’t in the novel. #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm Wulfie_: @BryanThomasS I do mine like a background check &then resume and brief bio. That way they tell me how they’ll act in situations #rdmwrtdisc
6:25 pm cryssfox: @SheikYurbouti I consider character studies to me like getting to know a character. For me its organic. #rdmwrtdisc
6:26 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS so really your first draft to see where you need to improve. you use the skeleton method kinda. 😉 #rdmwrtdisc
6:26 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Yeah. Lots of dialogue. The scenes and basic description. I add all the flowery stuff and meat in 2nd draft #rdmwrtdisc
6:27 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc my character studies are usually snapshots of that person in space, a random scene and dialogue go get the cut of their jib.
6:28 pm shadowflame1974: do any of you do and RP with someone else to learn more about the character? #rdmwrtdisc
6:28 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc and for novels, I just do a paragraph with motivation and a few descriptive notes for all major characters.
6:28 pm BryanThomasS: @sandrawickham Exactly #rdmwrtdisc
6:29 pm Wulfie_: @shadowflame1974 I do. I also use the empty chair method where ‘we’ talk. lol #rdmwrtdisc
6:29 pm shadowflame1974: wow bungled that. Do any of you RP with someone else to develop a character? #rdmwrtdisc
6:29 pm sandrawickham: @BryanThomasS: I’m the same way! A “putter-inner.” I’m learning to do more character building before starting though. #rdmwrtdisc
6:29 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 No but I used to suggest that technique to my students. #rdmwrtdisc
6:29 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc No, but several characters have come from and gone to actual RPG’s. 😉
6:30 pm BryanThomasS: @sandrawickham I’m finding that in my 2nd novel in a series, I have to do a lot more, especially outlining scenes & plot. #rdmwrtdisc
6:30 pm BryanThomasS: @sandrawickham And character details come out through that. #rdmwrtdisc
6:30 pm pfallerj: @shadowflame1974 Paragraphs. I do a little mini-synopsis of each scene, so I can get emotions, plot and character development. #rdmwrtdisc
6:30 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 For ex, in my epic fantasy, I found that two characters had great banter so I am going back in to add more #rdmwrtdisc
6:31 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 and emphasize the comedy. But also working on the motivations behind that. #rdmwrtdisc
6:31 pm shadowflame1974: @pfallerj do you find that helps you in character development? #rdmwrtdisc
6:31 pm Wulfie_: Longer pieces need more char development but shorts, not so much, no room 4 it, more action oriented. #rdmwrtdisc
6:32 pm BryanThomasS: @Wulfie_ Character comes out through those actions very much. #rdmwrtdisc
6:32 pm Wulfie_: It probably depends on whether the writer/story is character driven or plot driven too. char driven wd need more work there. #rdmwrtdisc
6:33 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974: Re: RP, I got to interview my friend (under cover narcotics officer) and she has inspired character traits. #rdmwrtdisc
6:33 pm cryssfox: @Wulfie_ Absolutely. I tend to write character pieces and so find myself doing character work even for 300-1000 word shorts. #rdmwrtdisc
6:34 pm shadowflame1974: In your opinion which is harder, a character driven or plot driven short story? #rdmwrtdisc
6:34 pm Wulfie_: It also relates to how story comes to you, if idea starts w/a char, you’ll run w/that. if it’s scene/action, you’ll focus there #rdmwrtdisc
6:34 pm BryanThomasS: @cryssfox My stuff’s character driven, too. I am a lot more interest in characters than any science or other details. #rdmwrtdisc
6:35 pm inkhaven: @shadowflame1974 I’ve never really understood the difference. #rdmwrtdisc
6:35 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 They’re different things. Character driven focus more on motives with actions & consequences. #rdmwrtdisc
6:35 pm Wulfie_: @cryssfox Yeah, same here. I prefer character driven too. #rdmwrtdisc
6:35 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I think it depends on what you like to write. I have trouble writing plot-driven because it doesn’t interest me #rdmwrtdisc
6:36 pm inkhaven: @shadowflame1974 Character and plot seem so inextricably linked. #rdmwrtdisc
6:36 pm shadowflame1974: @inkhaven @BryanThomasS has a good answer on character driven. #rdmwrtdisc
6:36 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 But at the same time you spnd more time with the internal life of the character in character driven. #rdmwrtdisc
6:36 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974: For me plot is always harder! (this is a great way to kill time doing cardio, btw! Lol) #rdmwrtdisc
6:37 pm Wulfie_: @inkhaven characters move the story in one, external circumstances move it in the other. Both contain bits of ea. other tho. #rdmwrtdisc
6:37 pm shadowflame1974: I agree they are linked, but I think character driven gets more in the char’s head. You have more reason for them to be involved #rdmwrtdisc
6:37 pm cryssfox: @sandrawickham (It’s also a great way to distract myself while editing informational SEO copy.) #rdmwrtdisc
6:38 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc I find plot-driven easier to write, but not compelling if I don’t find the character hook to connect to.
6:38 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Thanks. #rdmwrtdisc
6:38 pm Wulfie_: @shadowflame1974 right, more personally motivated. Whereas plot driven is more circumstance/externally driven. #rdmwrtdisc
6:38 pm shadowflame1974: Plot driven ex: Hero forced into fighting for his country Char driven: Hero WANTS to fight for his country #rdmwrtdisc
6:38 pm TheTillMonkey: @NateCrowder @shadowflame1974 often nearer the beginning, but I’ve had a ‘vision’ of the ending before I’ve even started before #rdmwrtdisc
6:39 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Yes. Exactly. Less about external events than the character’s response #rdmwrtdisc
6:39 pm inkhaven: @shadowflame1974 Can you give me an example of a plot-driven story I might know? Maybe I just don’t read enough of them. #rdmwrtdisc
6:39 pm Rshunter88: @Wulfie_ I guess I’ve never made a distinction. To me a plot’s a plot whether I spend time in a char’s head or outside it. #rdmwrtdisc
6:40 pm NateCrowder: If I’m not interested in the character (as writer OR reader), I’m less interested in how they get from point A to point B. #rdmwrtdisc
6:40 pm cryssfox: @inkhaven the davinci code #rdmwrtdisc
6:40 pm sandrawickham: @Wulfie_: Yes. Can’t have 1 without the other. Character to me seems to be subplot many times vs “the plot” #talkinoutmyarse #rdmwrtdisc
6:40 pm Wulfie_: @Rshunter88 Then you use a combo of the two. That works too. #rdmwrtdisc
6:40 pm inkhaven: @shadowflame1974 Or maybe I just haven’t taken the time to sort them out. Probably be a good exercise for me to do so. #rdmwrtdisc
6:41 pm Wulfie_: @sandrawickham Right on! #rdmwrtdisc
6:41 pm BryanThomasS: @sandrawickham Can’t have one without the other, yes but literary stories do tend to emphasize character over complex plots #rdmwrtdisc
6:41 pm shadowflame1974: @inkhaven I do believe I would count LotR more plot driven while The Hobbit would be more character driven #rdmwrtdisc
6:41 pm cryssfox: @inkhaven almost any action/adventure or mystery and most mainstream films. Any of Cussler’s Dirk Pitt books. #rdmwrtdisc
6:42 pm shadowflame1974: RT @cryssfox: @inkhaven the davinci code >> definitely plot driven #rdmwrtdisc
6:42 pm Wulfie_: @shadowflame1974 I agree. #rdmwrtdisc
6:42 pm BryanThomasS: @inkhaven It’s like comparing Star Wars and Huck Finn as coming of age stories. Huck is character, SW is plot. #rdmwrtdisc
6:43 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I’m not sure on LOTR. A lot of the external journey is analogous to Frodo’s internal struggle. #rdmwrtdisc
6:44 pm BryanThomasS: @inkhaven Except is it more about that character’s motives and response to being forced or abt how circmstances control him? #rdmwrtdisc
6:44 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 s’pose we’re treading on genre vs literary no-man’s-land now…. #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm inkgorilla: Ooo! Plot v Character! #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder you definitely have to have the right char for a plot driven #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm sandrawickham: @cryssfox: So, like James Patterson, Tom Clancy type stuff is plot driven, yes? #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm pfallerj: @shadowflame1974 Definitely. I know who they are at the start, & what they’ll end up as. Filling in the middle gets them there. #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm shadowflame1974: @TheTillMonkey lol well it is random! #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm inkgorilla: it really is all intertwined, but I think if you have a really compelling character you can get away with thin plot. #rdmwrtdisc
6:45 pm inkgorilla: and sometimes if you have a good plot, you can get away with thin characters…. #rdmwrtdisc
6:46 pm inkhaven: @shadowflame1974 I guess I’ve never tried to write a plot-driven story, so I don’t know how hard it is! #rdmwrtdisc
6:46 pm shadowflame1974: @inkgorilla I agree with both statements! #rdmwrtdisc
6:47 pm cryssfox: @sandrawickham Primarily. #rdmwrtdisc
6:47 pm shadowflame1974: @inkhaven for me it is a lot harder. #rdmwrtdisc
6:47 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla Thin chracters are a hallmark of much SF unfortunately. #rdmwrtdisc
6:48 pm inkgorilla: i see LOTR mentioned… is possible that most of it is Plot driven, but Frodo/Sam stuff in Two Towers is more character driven? #rdmwrtdisc
6:48 pm harrymarkov: @inkgorilla What is this #rdmwrtdisc ?
6:48 pm Wulfie_: @TheTillMonkey No doubt. It does get murky sometimes. lol #rdmwrtdisc
6:48 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS why do you think that is? Is the potential of the future overpowering the characters? #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm shadowflame1974: @harrymarkov just a random writing discussion 😉 #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm cryssfox: @inkgorilla I would agree with that. #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm inkhaven: @inkgorilla I think OSC called The Hobbit a “milieu” story, a 3rd catgry. Exploration of world more important than char or plot. #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm inkgorilla: @harrymarkov random writer discussion. join in! #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm shadowflame1974: @inkgorilla I agree that most of the story outside of Sam/Frodo is plot driven. #rdmwrtdisc
6:49 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Well, with hard science, they get so focused and enamored with their science, they often forget the people. #rdmwrtdisc
6:50 pm harrymarkov: @shadowflame1974 I love this. How often do you do this #rdmwrtdisc
6:50 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 The same thing can happen with milieu stories and world building. #rdmwrtdisc
6:50 pm inkgorilla: @inkhaven ahh, yeah, Middle Earth is certainly as much a char as anyone else #rdmwrtdisc
6:50 pm cryssfox: @BryanThomasS @shadowflame1974 And with cautionary they get caught up in their message and lose the characters. #rdmwrtdisc
6:51 pm Wulfie_: @inkgorilla Think diff is all the chars are driven by external forces so have no choice but to act & in there is char change #rdmwrtdisc
6:52 pm sandrawickham: @inkgorilla: Re:LOTR I think of that as ex. of main plot vs subplots. (character subplots) #rdmwrtdisc
6:52 pm Wulfie_: @inkgorilla @harrymarkov Oh is that what it stands for? lol Well, it’s cool. #rdmwrtdisc
6:52 pm shadowflame1974: @harrymarkov it is the first one >.< #rdmwrtdisc
6:53 pm inkgorilla: @Wulfie_ yeah motive is certainly ext, tho the distinct in F/S is that we *really* examine their response vs other chars in LOTR #rdmwrtdisc
6:53 pm sandrawickham: @Wulfie_ @inkgorilla Nice! #rdmwrtdisc
6:53 pm BryanThomasS: RT @TheTillMonkey: and what << BTS said! Scifi/fantasy/crime etc focus more on surroundings and details b/c the story arc is… #rdmwrtdisc
6:53 pm BryanThomasS: RT @TheTillMonkey: often more defined. Delving into characters’ thoughts beyond important plot points is secondary.#rdmwrtdisc
6:54 pm Wulfie_: S. King’s work is a good example of mostly character driven stories. #rdmwrtdisc
6:55 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham but is the main plot destroying the ring or discovering the inner self (Frodo/Sam)? #rdmwrtdisc
6:55 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla Some of the characters in LOTR are richly developed but a lot are not so much. It varies. #rdmwrtdisc
6:55 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974: Cardio done! 🙂 Will check in again in a bit, see if you fine peeps are still chatting. #rdmwrtdisc
6:55 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 The main plot is the world being threatened. The character responses are subplots, I think #rdmwrtdisc
6:56 pm harrymarkov: @Wulfie_ I love Carrie as a perfect example of characterization and transformation of a MC #rdmwrtdisc [okay I love telekinetics too]
6:56 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS but can you imagine how long those books would be if they are all fully developed? lol #rdmwrtdisc
6:56 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 @sandrawickham Grappling with evil in both the external and the internal world. #rdmwrtdisc
6:56 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Oh, of course. Not a criticism, merely an observation. #rdmwrtdisc
6:57 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS lol #rdmwrtdisc
6:58 pm shadowflame1974: …cont: often more defined. Delving into characters’ thoughts beyond important plot points is secondary. #rdmwrtdisc
6:59 pm shadowflame1974: BTS said! Scifi/fantasy/crime etc focus more on surroundings and details b/c the story arc is… #rdmwrtdisc
6:59 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 LOL We both added that to the feed #rdmwrtdisc
6:59 pm shadowflame1974: TRs from @TheTillMonkey #rdmwrtdisc
7:00 pm shadowflame1974: no worries #rdmwrtdisc
7:00 pm Rshunter88: I’d want to go inside char’s head more in SF/F/Crime etc. because it adds more “reality” to the already fantastical world. #rdmwrtdisc
7:01 pm shadowflame1974: I often find it amazing how other writers “work” no one way is right for all #rdmwrtdisc
7:01 pm BryanThomasS: @Rshunter88 I’m the same way. Characters are what hook me. #rdmwrtdisc
7:02 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 That’s why critiques can drive you nuts because all the opinions collide. #rdmwrtdisc
7:02 pm shadowflame1974: It depends on the book. If a character is well written, but the plot is soggy, I’m not going to be happy with it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:03 pm inkgorilla: yeah, every writer and every reader has different ideas about what “works” — and it changes for me dep. on my mood 🙂 #rdmwrtdisc
7:04 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Well definitely you need a plot of some kind. But I shy away from hard science in favor of character & plot. #rdmwrtdisc
7:04 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 with an emphasis on the character’s motivations, inner life, etc. how did they get here? why did they do that? #rdmwrtdisc
7:04 pm shadowflame1974: what were some talked about books that disappointed you? #rdmwrtdisc
7:05 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I’m disappointed by most books. That’s why I write. =P #rdmwrtdisc
7:06 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 I find it easier to talk about books which enthralled me. Trying to remember… #rdmwrtdisc
7:06 pm shadowflame1974: RT: @NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc Agreed. I have one friend who can’t write a novel with an outline. I can’t write without one.
7:07 pm inkgorilla: yeah, it’s hard to talk about books that disappointed you in 140 chars. prefer to talk about books i loved. #rdmwrtdisc
7:08 pm shadowflame1974: okay then what books do you LOVE? #rdmwrtdisc
7:08 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla I’ve blocked the disappointing ones out LOL #rdmwrtdisc
7:09 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 All time favorite: Jitterbug Perfume. #rdmwrtdisc
7:09 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 The Hobbit/LOTR, Huck Finn, McDonald’s Brasyl, Three Cups of Tea by Mortinsen, The Firm, #rdmwrtdisc
7:09 pm GeneDoucette: Okay, I give up: what is #rdmwrtdisc
7:10 pm shadowflame1974: @GeneDoucette lol just a random writing discussion. come join in! #rdmwrtdisc
7:10 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Windup Girl, Resnick’s Inferno/Paradise/Purgatory, so many… #rdmwrtdisc
7:10 pm GeneDoucette: Oh and hi everyone #rdmwrtdisc
7:10 pm shadowflame1974: LotRs/Hobbit is on my list. I have worn out three sets of the series so far. #rdmwrtdisc
7:12 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Ken Scholes Psalms of Isaak, Jay Lake’s Clockwork Earth series, Jay’s Death Of A Starship, OSC’s Ender novels #rdmwrtdisc
7:12 pm GeneDoucette: Books I loved? The Baroque Cycle; Lamb; The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay #rdmwrtdisc
7:13 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 Breakfast of Champions is another of my favorites. #rdmwrtdisc
7:14 pm shadowflame1974: Ender’s Game, Dune (yes I liked it), some of the MBZ books, Twain, Steinbeck #rdmwrtdisc
7:14 pm shadowflame1974: *adds a lot more to her list* #rdmwrtdisc
7:14 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Song of Ice and Fire must be on my list. #rdmwrtdisc
7:15 pm inkgorilla: read precious few books this year: *lots* of short fiction b4 & since CW. a few off the top: A Movable Feast, Desolation Road. #rdmwrtdisc
7:15 pm shadowflame1974: anyone have any favorite short stories they read? #rdmwrtdisc
7:16 pm GeneDoucette: Resisting urge to add my own stuff to the list. #rdmwrtdisc
7:16 pm GeneDoucette: Most of what I read is non-fic. Those are the first books to pop into my head #rdmwrtdisc
7:16 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 Disappointed enormously with The Story of Edgar Sawtelle – needed an editor with balls to cut about 1/3 of it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:16 pm cryssfox: @GeneDoucette I’ll do it. I LOVED Artemis Dreamt. One day I hope you get to read it. =) #rdmwrtdisc
7:17 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette Have you ever read Three Cups of Tea or Blue Highways? Loved those two #rdmwrtdisc
7:17 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey As much as I enjoyed his early books, Tom Clancy, I always thought, needed a better editor. #rdmwrtdisc
7:17 pm shadowflame1974: @TheTillMonkey I think I felt the same about The Historian… needed about a third of that cut #rdmwrtdisc
7:17 pm GeneDoucette: @cryssfox LOL, you should totally read Immortal. Best book of the year! #Icandothis #rdmwrtdisc
7:18 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 Fave short stories – Amy Hempel’s entire works. Wore out my old copy, got a new one for xmas. Bliss. #rdmwrtdisc
7:18 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS no, but I’ll look them up #rdmwrtdisc
7:18 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette Really good stuff #rdmwrtdisc
7:18 pm shadowflame1974: @GeneDoucette lol It is already on my list #rdmwrtdisc
7:18 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS @TheTillMonkey Red October was exceptional. His later stuff, not so much #rdmwrtdisc
7:19 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc Novels I’ve loved this year, Kadrey’s Sandman Slim books and The Half-Made World by Gillman. Anthos…all the ones I’ve been in
7:19 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette Yeah, his later stuff definitely not up to par. Red Storm Rising was my favorite. Stephen King had some rough 1s #rdmwrtdisc
7:20 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 A Canticle For Leibowitz is a favorite of mine I finally read this year. #rdmwrtdisc
7:21 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS I stopped reading King a long time ago, yeah. #rdmwrtdisc
7:21 pm Rshunter88: @shadowflame1974 Dune is one of my fave books of all time, even though I don’t agree with it – college thesis on it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:21 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 I’d put The Stand on my list as well. Short stories: The Most Dangerous Game is my all time fav #rdmwrtdisc
7:21 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc fave shorts, “Flash Frame” by Sylvia Moreno-Garcia in #cthulhurotica blew me away this year.
7:21 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I’ve been reading lots of short travel narratives lately. I like Bryson and Halliday a lot. #rdmwrtdisc
7:21 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette I stopped reading King until Duma Key which I enjoyed. And I hear Under The Dome is fantastic. #rdmwrtdisc
7:22 pm Rshunter88: I really liked @author_sullivan‘s Crown Conspiracy. I’m going to read the rest of the series. #rdmwrtdisc
7:22 pm shadowflame1974: Kij Johnson has some great short stories too. #rdmwrtdisc
7:23 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey @GeneDoucette In King’s case, and probably Clancy, and Anne Rice as well, they decided they were too successful #rdmwrtdisc
7:23 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey @GeneDoucette to need editing. #rdmwrtdisc
7:24 pm shadowflame1974: I think the last King book I read was Rose Madder I think? Nothing like his older works that really scared you. #rdmwrtdisc
7:25 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS @TheTillMonkey Maybe. Clancy’s politics started to show too much… #rdmwrtdisc
7:25 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette It was Clancy’s arrogance in intvs which really did me in #rdmwrtdisc
7:25 pm quickmissive: @shadowflame1974 My favorite short story is Chopin’s “Story of an Hour” #rdmwrtdisc There! Fixed the damn hashtag!
7:25 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS @TheTillMonkey King, I think he gets a mulligan for writing so damn much… #rdmwrtdisc
7:25 pm inkgorilla: I haven’t read King in a long time. I think The Tommyknockers may have been the last book I read… #rdmwrtdisc
7:25 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette But I replaced him with WEB Griffin. His Presidential Agent novels are great reads #rdmwrtdisc
7:26 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS @TheTillMonkey And I think Rice just went insane. #rdmwrtdisc
7:26 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla This is a lesson to be learned for all writers: you can kill your readership with bad books. #rdmwrtdisc
7:26 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS When I picked up one of his books and found his author-stand-in character was president, I knew he was gone. #rdmwrtdisc
7:27 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette I suspected for a long time that King had hirelings whom he dictated to and had a production line #rdmwrtdisc
7:27 pm shadowflame1974: do you think we are more critical of reading because we are writers? #rdmwrtdisc
7:27 pm inkgorilla: that’s not to say there haven’t been good books since–sometimes you wander away to other things #rdmwrtdisc
7:28 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 The more I learn craft, the harder time I have reading a book for pure fun. Always analyzing #rdmwrtdisc
7:28 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Same thing happened with film school. Couldn’t really enjoy a movie or tv show for a long time after #rdmwrtdisc
7:28 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 Probably. Though we could be writers because we’re more critical readers. #rdmwrtdisc
7:29 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette I just Rice is a confused individual still trying to figure out who she is #rdmwrtdisc
7:29 pm shadowflame1974: @BryanThomasS lol I was dissecting Monster’s Inc the other day… had to stop myself so I could enjoy it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:29 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey Dan Brown’s stuff and the best selling Left Behind novels are full of bad writing. They supposedly had editors. #rdmwrtdisc
7:29 pm cryssfox: @BryanThomasS @GeneDoucette Still? #rdmwrtdisc
7:30 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 I am in awe of anything where I cannot figure out how the writer succeeded in writing it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:30 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Luckily I don’t do it as much as I used to. But yeah exactly #rdmwrtdisc
7:30 pm shadowflame1974: I only got through the first Left Behind book…. ggghhaaa #rdmwrtdisc
7:30 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 Any time I can’t figure out “oh this is where he/she started, and it went from there” I’m awed. #rdmwrtdisc
7:31 pm NateCrowder: @cryssfox @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc Yes, there seems to be a critical voice saying, “Not bad, but I would have written that better.”
7:31 pm BryanThomasS: @NateCrowder I’d be happy if I could ever really feel satisfied with one of mine. Always wanting to fix stuff. #rdmwrtdisc
7:32 pm shadowflame1974: do you think that is why we are writers? @NateCrowder always improving on what we read? #rdmwrtdisc
7:32 pm cryssfox: @NateCrowder @shadowflame1974 I have that too, but you have to let go eventually. Once I do the voice shuts up. #rdmwrtdisc
7:32 pm inkgorilla: @BryanThomasS @NateCrowder art is never finished, just abandoned 😛 #rdmwrtdisc
7:33 pm BryanThomasS: @@inkgorilla Hopefully abandoned for a nice fat check 🙂 #rdmwrtdisc
7:33 pm inkgorilla: @BryanThomasS lol right! #rdmwrtdisc
7:34 pm cryssfox: @BryanThomasS @@inkgorilla Won’t that be nice. #rdmwrtdisc
7:36 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 everyone has their own reasons for being writers. mine is because the voices won’t shut up. #rdmwrtdisc
7:37 pm NateCrowder: oh hell yes. “Perfect” is the enemy of “done.” But “better” is well within reach, even on big-name, published novels #rdmwrtdisc
7:37 pm shadowflame1974: @GeneDoucette I think a lot of writers have the same problem. 😀 I know I do #rdmwrtdisc
7:37 pm TheTillMonkey: @GeneDoucette 🙂 that’s pretty much it for me too. Writing allows brain shutdown and sleep. #rdmwrtdisc
7:37 pm NateCrowder: Plus, not many people are writing the stories I want to read, so I HAVE to write my own. #rdmwrtdisc
7:37 pm cryssfox: @GeneDoucette @shadowflame1974 That’s mine too. They quiet down for a little bit after I finish a book. #rdmwrtdisc
7:38 pm TheTillMonkey: @NateCrowder suppose you’ve just got to get to: “as good as I can make it” #rdmwrtdisc
7:38 pm GeneDoucette: @TheTillMonkey @shadowflame1974 I’ve also never not been a writer. #rdmwrtdisc
7:39 pm TheTillMonkey: @NateCrowder uh huh. Also end up re-reading the few books that I do really admire, again and again. #rdmwrtdisc
7:39 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder That’s how I got started writing. I read everything in the local library that was even similar to what I wanted. #rdmwrtdisc
7:40 pm shadowflame1974: @bolthy come and join with the #rdmwrtdisc 😉
7:41 pm NateCrowder: @TheTillMonkey or until I’m sick of looking at it and can send it off to an impartial editor. 😉 #rdmwrtdisc
7:41 pm TheTillMonkey: @GeneDoucette @shadowflame1974 yes – for as long as I can remember. My voices and I have a symbiotic relationship 🙂 #rdmwrtdisc
7:42 pm TheTillMonkey: @NateCrowder “Sick of it” is also a very good reason. Argh, about there now with the current edit of mine. Head-banging time. #rdmwrtdisc
7:43 pm shadowflame1974: so we can all admit we hear voices *looks around for min in white coats* lol #rdmwrtdisc
7:44 pm GeneDoucette: @TheTillMonkey @NateCrowder I’m still looking at my published novel and thinking “if I just changed this part here…” #rdmwrtdisc
7:44 pm TheTillMonkey: How long do you leave a 1st draft before going back to edit? Need space to re-assess things or right back in there? #rdmwrtdisc
7:45 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette @NateCrowder @TheTillMonkey I’m about to turn mine in to my publisher and keep polishing over and over. #rdmwrtdisc
7:45 pm shadowflame1974: Is the “sick of it” phase when your work goes to a beta reader? #rdmwrtdisc
7:45 pm cryssfox: @TheTillMonkey At least a week. #rdmwrtdisc
7:45 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey I set my novels aside at least a month. Short stories, at least two weeks, depending on how much writing I do #rdmwrtdisc
7:46 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey Becuz I need to get it out of my mind by working on other stuff, so sometimes it sits longer. #rdmwrtdisc
7:46 pm GeneDoucette: @TheTillMonkey I go back right in. I SHOULD wait a month or two. I always see better after time away. #rdmwrtdisc
7:46 pm NateCrowder: @GeneDoucette @TheTillMonkey That’s a big part of why I rarely read my published works..unless a rewrite is a legitimate option. #rdmwrtdisc
7:47 pm CalvinJim: RT And her novels are sublime @shadowflame1974: Kij Johnson has some great short stories too. #rdmwrtdisc
7:47 pm TheTillMonkey: @GeneDoucette that’s painful. I’ve been doing the same to a recently published short “how did I submit without changing that?” #rdmwrtdisc
7:47 pm shadowflame1974: usually when I let things sit too long I have the ICK… awful feeling. #rdmwrtdisc
7:48 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 I don’t know. My epic fantasy took me 10 mos because so many things interrupted where as my SF took 3 mo 1 drft #rdmwrtdisc
7:48 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc Short fiction I wait as little as a few days. For a novel, more like a month or two..depends on my beta-readers.
7:48 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 Becuz of how many simultaneous projects I had going. And I feel fine. Going to get back on the epic fantasy #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 in Jan. Polishing some short stories at the moment. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS @GeneDoucette @cryssfox I’ve left mine for a few weeks but getting itchy fingers. Need a bigger brain to fix it. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I feel like I have to work on it but the longer I wait the happier I am to dive back in. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm GeneDoucette: @NateCrowder @TheTillMonkey mind you, I’m not seeing anything WRONG. It’s just u see the same sentence x times… #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey When I am working on soemthing, I read nothing but that genre to help me stay in the right mode. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I’m trying to get back to a new short story but haven’t had time, so I’m antsy about it but also excited. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm bolthy: @shadowflame1974 Yeah, I find that if I leave something too long it becomes a a thing of dread rather than something I like. #rdmwrtdisc
7:49 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey But I am very analytical about fixing. I have a blog post about how I do 2nd drafts. #rdmwrtdisc
7:50 pm shadowflame1974: since writing is always an ongoing process, do you think you are always improving? Why earlier works always need tweeking? #rdmwrtdisc
7:50 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey Most I start with listing all the questions asked and answered and look for gaps then go from there #rdmwrtdisc
7:51 pm GeneDoucette: I just went back to review a book I last put down three years ago. What a difference time makes. #rdmwrtdisc
7:51 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I dont want to see my first novel again. It’s ready to go but its not my best work and I know it. I’ve moved on #rdmwrtdisc
7:51 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS good process – I have time off at xmas to look at it properly #rdmwrtdisc
7:52 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 The longer I wait to go back to something, the more it needs a complete re-write rather than just editing. #rdmwrtdisc
7:52 pm shadowflame1974: @cryssfox lol that is why mine is still hidden under the bed 😉 #rdmwrtdisc
7:52 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS for once excited about editing rather than dreading it. Know it’s a lot of work but know it could be great. #rdmwrtdisc
7:53 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I’ll let other people read it. I’d publish it if it was picked up. But I DONT want to rewrite. #rdmwrtdisc
7:54 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder that isn’t always a bad thing though right? #rdmwrtdisc
7:54 pm shadowflame1974: @agent139 come join in the #rdmwrtdisc 😀
7:56 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc not a bad thing at all. Sometimes a total rewrite can turn an old, good idea done badly into a great story.
7:56 pm shadowflame1974: actually I think my first novel is better than my second, but I’m going to keep going forward. #rdmwrtdisc
7:57 pm TheTillMonkey: @cryssfox My 1st novel was shelved long ago. One day I’ll turn it into a screenplay. But mostly it was just practice. #rdmwrtdisc
7:59 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 thanks for this random chat by the way 🙂 #rdmwrtdisc I always seem to miss litchats.
7:59 pm GeneDoucette: @TheTillMonkey Did that with an earlier novel. Screenplay’s better than the book. #rdmwrtdisc
7:59 pm inkgorilla: My “1st novel” isn’t really much of a novel. I’m kind of afraid to look at it! #rdmwrtdisc
7:59 pm NateCrowder: #rdmwrtdisc While I still really enjoy my first finished novel, it can’t compare quality-wise with the one I just finished last month.
8:00 pm shadowflame1974: @TheTillMonkey no problem at all. have nothing here at work to do. 😀 this is a much better use of time #rdmwrtdisc
8:01 pm shadowflame1974: @NateCrowder I actually enjoyed mine too. I will go back and rewrite it, but I don’t think it will be that bad. #rdmwrtdisc
8:02 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey I’m sure it will be. I hope getting back to it goes smoothly #rdmwrtdisc
8:02 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla Mine was awful too but the characters and story are worth revisiting and I started during NanoWriMo #rdmwrtdisc
8:03 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey The one thing I definitely avoid is comparing my work to other authors too much. I write the best I can write #rdmwrtdisc
8:03 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey for where I am now. That’s the most I can ask of myself. And then just keep improving. #rdmwrtdisc
8:03 pm inkgorilla: I’m actually trying to figure out how to start a new book. short fiction has consumed me in 2010. #rdmwrtdisc
8:04 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS thanks – it’ll have to wait until after another screenplay, editing this novel and writing the next novel though! #rdmwrtdisc
8:04 pm cryssfox: @BryanThomasS I have authors in mind that I’d like others to compare me to but I don’t try to write like them. #rdmwrtdisc
8:05 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey I gave up screenwriting for now. Good luck tho #rdmwrtdisc
8:05 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS @inkgorilla I’ve been stealing scenes and characters from the shelved novel to use in shorts and flashes. #rdmwrtdisc
8:05 pm TheTillMonkey: @BryanThomasS @inkgorilla can’t let good plot/character/moment go to waste… frugal writing! #rdmwrtdisc
8:05 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey Hey, I’m all for recycling. @inkgorilla #rdmwrtdisc
8:05 pm NateCrowder: @inkgorilla preach it, brother! I’m promising myself I’ll find more time to do novel writing in 2011 after short fic 2010. #rdmwrtdisc
8:07 pm inkgorilla: feels like the only way to start is to dive in! #rdmwrtdisc
8:07 pm shadowflame1974: do you find that you go in spurts, shorts then novels then shorts again? #rdmwrtdisc
8:07 pm NateCrowder: @TheTillMonkey I gave up writing screenplays for anyone other than me a few years ago – now using those tools for podcast scrips #rdmwrtdisc
8:07 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 I definitely do #rdmwrtdisc
8:07 pm GeneDoucette: @BryanThomasS comparisons are what other people do. I’ve been compared to ten different writers, at least. I dunno 1/2 of them #rdmwrtdisc
8:08 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 this has been a year of shorts for me too, after a decade of novels. Hope it’ll be a mix from now on. #rdmwrtdisc
8:08 pm SheikYurbouti: @shadowflame1974 Pretty much all shorts all the time. #rdmwrtdisc
8:08 pm BryanThomasS: @inkgorilla I have too many books I’m wanting to write. I struggle more with shorts ironically. #rdmwrtdisc
8:09 pm BryanThomasS: @TheTillMonkey If I read enough of a part writer though I can capture some of that style tho #rdmwrtdisc
8:09 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 I sat down to write a short story this summer and found that I had gone over the limit by like 100 pages. #rdmwrtdisc
8:11 pm shadowflame1974: @cryssfox don’t you hate it when a short story won’t stay within the word count! #rdmwrtdisc
8:12 pm BryanThomasS: @GeneDoucette Yeah. I find comparisons are only helpful to me as a reviewer or reader not as a writer #rdmwrtdisc
8:13 pm agent139: @inkgorilla you and me both. #rdmwrtdisc
8:15 pm shadowflame1974: aahhhh dislike comparisons. I want to write like me! #rdmwrtdisc
8:15 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 No one else writes like you #rdmwrtdisc
8:16 pm agent139: Have an edgy YA novel, illustrated novella, play script & non fic book ready for publishers in 2011. Not sure how that happened #rdmwrtdisc
8:17 pm cryssfox: @agent139 You’ve been busy. #rdmwrtdisc
8:17 pm shadowflame1974: so what is everyone looking forward to for 2011 in the writing world? #rdmwrtdisc
8:18 pm BryanThomasS: @shadowflame1974 My first pro sale. That’s the goal That and the release of my debut novel. #rdmwrtdisc
8:18 pm shadowflame1974: @atfmb poke poke #rdmwrtdisc come chat with us
8:19 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 wider publicity from my publisher; a distribution deal for same; #rdmwrtdisc
8:19 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 I should have a film shoot starting in the spring; I have a possible deal for another novel pending; #rdmwrtdisc
8:19 pm cryssfox: @shadowflame1974 Selling my TV show. #rdmwrtdisc
8:19 pm TheTillMonkey: @shadowflame1974 To finish this novel and get it shopped around. To get more short/flash publications and to start next novel. #rdmwrtdisc
8:19 pm NateCrowder: @shadowflame1974 #rdmwrtdisc Well, getting a book deal for my last two novels would make 2011 rock for me, that’s for sure. 😉
8:20 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 My feature screenplay might be in the same deal… not much, really. just the usual stuff #rdmwrtdisc
8:20 pm atfmb: @shadowflame1974 Hmmm? Ok – what does #rdmwrtdisc stand for?
8:20 pm agent139: @cryssfox unemployment has its benefits. those benefits, sadly, will run out soon. :p #rdmwrtdisc
8:21 pm agent139: @cryssfox 1000 words written in the year & half prior of FT work. 500k words since layoff. hmm #rdmwrtdisc
8:21 pm cryssfox: @agent139 Freelance it up. I’m working while I talk to you all. #rdmwrtdisc
8:22 pm winnie3k: @shadowflame1974 Writing my next book, launching my small press book & please-oh-please making another pro sale. #rdmwrtdisc
8:24 pm shadowflame1974: I’m working towards my first sales next year. Finishing 3rd novel, starting 4th and reworking second. #rdmwrtdisc
8:24 pm agent139: @cryssfox I freelanced for years. 5 shitty contracts in a row drove me to FT work. now can’t find anything… #rdmwrtdisc
8:25 pm shadowflame1974: oh and lots of short stories #rdmwrtdisc
8:27 pm agent139: @TheTillMonkey @cryssfox Yeah, I have a problem. 🙂 #rdmwrtdisc
8:29 pm TheTillMonkey: @agent139 pretty good problem to have 😉 #rdmwrtdisc As for work – better get that big $$ book deal then!
8:32 pm TheTillMonkey: Right lovely writer people… Off to bathe the baby monkey (erm, that’s not a euphemism). Random chat again sometime I hope! #rdmwrtdisc
8:33 pm shadowflame1974: Thanks everyone for chatting today. Great conversations and insight. I didn’t realize 3 hours has passed 😀 #rdmwrtdisc
8:33 pm shadowflame1974: We will do another. Not sure when but yea this was great fun! #rdmwrtdisc
8:36 pm GeneDoucette: bye all #rdmwrtdisc
8:36 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 if you schedule it, it won’t be random, now will it? #rdmwrtdisc
8:36 pm cryssfox: Just in time. Editing=finished. #rdmwrtdisc
8:37 pm LenaOR: For me, first sale, anthology (editor), novel, and many shorts! (Two of which directed at @jaymgates and @erikaholt) #rdmwrtdisc
8:38 pm shadowflame1974: @GeneDoucette I never said anything about scheduling did I? #rdmwrtdisc
8:38 pm shadowflame1974: I’ll post transcripts on my blog for those who would like to take a peek #rdmwrtdisc
8:38 pm GeneDoucette: @shadowflame1974 “I don’t know when” is sort of requisite, is all I’m saying #rdmwrtdisc
8:39 pm agent139: @TheTillMonkey Yeah, I’m sure it’s just around the bend! :p #rdmwrtdisc

 

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